WCS Podcast 16 - Building a Successful Sales Career
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[00:00:00]
[00:00:04] Grace: Welcome back to the World Class Selling podcasts. Today we’re wrapping up our six-part mini-series on What Makes a Great Salesperson. Over the last five episodes, we’ve explored skills, mindsets, and habits that separate top performers from the rest. And in this final conversation, we’re diving into what it really takes to build a successful sales career — not just quick wins, but long-term success. We’ll unpack Roy Chitwood’s Pyramid of Success, layer by layer, and discover how qualities like interest, attitude, energy, and method combine to create not only sales results, but a blueprint for living well. If you’ve been following along, this episode ties it all together.”
[00:00:48] Jason: Today we're really getting into something important. What does it actually take to build a successful career? Now, you might think, well, doesn't everyone want success? But, uh, Roy's book points out something kind of surprising. Most people, they don't really build a successful career. They often end up on what the author calls the easy road of failure, not the proven path. It's a bit strange, right? Think about baseball. A hitter batting .210, they're marginal, maybe barely keeping their job.
[00:01:15] Marissa: Right.
[00:01:15] Jason: But someone hitting .300, they're a star. A literal game changer.
[00:01:19] Marissa: Absolutely. Big difference. And the gap between them, it's just one more hit, one more hit every 10 times up. That tiny difference, huge impact.
[00:01:29] Marissa: So what if you could find those small strategic ways to improve in your career? That's what we're unpacking today. There's this really clear blueprint in Roy's book, a framework that, uh, it says it's basically open to anyone with that genuine desire.
[00:01:45] Marissa: It's pretty fascinating how Roy breaks it down in World Class Selling. He suggests success isn't just luck, it's built on something specific, something attainable.
[00:01:53] Jason: Yeah. And what's really compelling is how logical this structure is. It introduces this idea, the Pyramid of Success. Think about a real pyramid, right? It lasts for ages because it's got that wide solid base, super durable.
[00:02:05] Marissa: Okay, makes sense.
[00:02:06] Jason: Well, the book argues the same principle applies to your career. You need that solid foundation. And it says there are five essential ingredients for this pyramid. Five key things. And here's the crucial part. They're available to everyone, anyone who really wants to use them. It's not about needing some massive overnight change. It's about knowing where to make those small, smart improvements that add up.
[00:02:27] Marissa: That pyramid image really works. Yeah. So let's start at the bottom then. The foundation. What's the absolute bedrock. Roy's book calls this first ingredient, interest. Mm-hmm. And it's defined not just as like a passing fancy, but as the decision you make to develop, practice, and apply the information available that will help you to become as successful as you're capable of becoming.
[00:02:49] Jason: Mm.
[00:02:49] Marissa: So it's a choice. An active thing.
[00:02:51] Jason: Exactly.
[00:02:51] Marissa: And the book gives this, uh, pretty intense example of what minimum interest looks like. Imagine you need a serious operation, life or death, and as you're being wheeled in, you overhear the nurses chatting. They're saying your surgeon hasn't bothered with any new training in like 30 years.
[00:03:08] Jason: Oof.
[00:03:08] Jason: Yeah. How would you feel?
[00:03:10] Marissa: Right. Terrified. That chilling picture, the author says, that's minimum interest. Wow. But on the other hand, people who are truly interested, they just radiate enthusiasm. They work hard, they're organized, discipline, willing to try new stuff. Those qualities, the book says they really shine through. You can just see it.
[00:03:28] Jason: That's such a key point, and if you think about the bigger picture, that genuine interest, it's not just feeling excited. It's that deep commitment to always be learning, always growing. That's what the book really hammers home.
[00:03:44] Marissa: Right? Continuous growth.
[00:03:45] Jason: Yeah. When you're truly interested, you actually wanna learn more. Yeah. You seek it out. You read books like this one, you read trade journals, you um, you actively network, you talk to people who are already successful in your field.
[00:03:58] Marissa: Makes sense.
[00:03:58] Jason: It reminds me of that Walter Chrysler quote, something like, "Gimme a salesperson that gets excited. When salespeople get excited, they get the customers excited. When the customers get excited, they buy.
[00:04:08] Marissa: Hmm.
[00:04:09] Jason: And the book even asks, you know, are people enthusiastic because they're successful? Or is it the other way around? Are they successful because they're enthusiastic? It's guessed there's a really powerful link there, maybe even causal.
[00:04:22] Marissa: That's a great question to ponder. It really flips interest from being passive to being well, an engine for success. Okay, so interest is the base. Moving up the pyramid, what's the next layer?
[00:04:33] Jason: The next layer is attitude.
[00:04:35] Marissa: Attitude, okay. And this chapter in the book keeps it pretty simple. Positive thoughts produce positive results. Negative thoughts produce negative results. Hmm. Now I know some people hear positive thinking and they kind of roll their eyes.
[00:04:48] Jason: Sure. It can sound a bit cliche sometimes.
[00:04:50] Marissa: Yeah. But the book stresses it's much deeper than just, you know, putting on a happy face. It quotes William James, famous philosopher, psychologist, who said, "The greatest discovery of his time was that people can literally change their lives just by changing their attitude."
[00:05:06] Jason: That's a powerful statement.
[00:05:08] Marissa: It really is. It's not just wishful thinking. The book frames it as a fundamental truth, and there's this one line in the book that really sticks with you. There are only two kinds of people in this world, those who think they can and those who think they can't, and they're both right.
[00:05:23] Jason: Wow.
[00:05:24] Marissa: Yeah.
[00:05:25] Jason: That really makes you stop and think, doesn't it? Yeah. How much of what happens to us is actually shaped by our own mindset, and the book uses some incredibly vivid stories to illustrate this. There's this really, um, chilling story about a Russian railway worker. He accidentally got locked inside a refrigerated box car. He became absolutely convinced he was gonna freeze to death.
[00:05:46] Marissa: Oh, wow.
[00:05:47] Jason: And did. He suffocated. They found his terrified messages scrawled inside. But here's the unbelievable part. The freezer unit was broken. It never got below 56 degrees Fahrenheit. Plenty of air too.
[00:06:00] Marissa: No way.
[00:06:00] Jason: Yeah. Medically, there was no reason for him to die. It was purely the power of his negative belief, his negative attitude.
[00:06:06] Marissa: That's deeply unsettling.
[00:06:07] Jason: It really is. But then, contrast that with this other story, an amazing one. A 19-year-old kid in Romania. An earthquake hits. His apartment building collapses. He's trapped under the robble for 11 days.
[00:06:18] Marissa: 11 days. No food or water.
[00:06:20] Jason: None. Buried. But when they finally rescued him, he was calm. He told him he had slept a lot, but when he was awake, he never doubted for an instant that he would be rescued.
[00:06:30] Marissa: Incredible.
[00:06:31] Jason: He just knew he'd survive because he kept that positive attitude. And he did.
[00:06:35] Marissa: So the mind is incredibly powerful for good or bad.
[00:06:38] Jason: Absolutely. So the question becomes, how do we build and keep that positive attitude? Roy's book gives some solid, practical advice. Things like, uh, regularly feed your mind positive stuff. Actively look for the good in any bad situation. Don't just complain. Take action to make things better. And crucially, surround yourself with positive, successful people. Network with them.
[00:07:02] Marissa: Those stories really drive it home. Attitude isn't just nice to have, it's fundamental. A real driver.
[00:07:09] Marissa: Okay, so you've got interest fueling you, attitude setting your mindset. That brings us to the third element. Energy. And the book defines this as developing your capacity by getting a little better every day. Hmm. It's not just physical energy. Like running a marathon. It's that drive that fuel for tackling challenges and it flows right out of your interest and your attitude.
[00:07:28] Jason: That connection is key.
[00:07:29] Marissa: Yeah. Think about when you're really excited for something, a vacation maybe, or a fishing trip you love. You set your alarm early, but what happens? You wake up before the alarm even goes off.
[00:07:39] Jason: Happens all the time.
[00:07:40] Marissa: Your feet hit the floor, you're buzzing. Where did all that extra energy come from?
[00:07:45] Jason: From being excited about it. Your attitude.
[00:07:47] Marissa: Exactly. Your enthusiasm, your positive outlook generated it. And the author keeps coming back to this idea. Little differences add up to big differences. Hmm. A top professional, the book says isn't always like twice as good as everyone else. Maybe they're just 20% better here, 20% better there. In qualifying, and finding the need, in closing the deal.
[00:08:08] Jason: Small edges in different areas.
[00:08:11] Marissa: Right? But add all those small edges up that makes all the difference in the end.
[00:08:15] Jason: And this is where it gets really interesting. That compounding effect makes it so clear. Consistent, small improvements. They don't just lead to small gains. They unlock huge power.
[00:08:26] Marissa: Like compound interest, almost.
[00:08:28] Jason: Exactly. The book uses this great analogy. Water at 211 degrees Fahrenheit. It's hot. Sure. But that's it. Add just one more degree. Just one. Take it to 212.
[00:08:39] Marissa: Boiling point. Steam.
[00:08:41] Jason: Right. It becomes steam and steam can move a locomotive. Mm-hmm. That one extra degree changes everything. It unlocks massive power.
[00:08:49] Marissa: That's a powerful image.
[00:08:51] Jason: And there's a real world example too from the book. An Alaskan dog sled race, over a thousand miles long. Brutal conditions, 15 days and nights.
[00:09:01] Marissa: Wow. Grueling.
[00:09:03] Jason: Unbelievably so. And the winner, after all that distance, all that effort, they won by one second.
[00:09:11] Marissa: One second after a thousand miles.
[00:09:14] Jason: One single second. Think about that. That tiny, tiny margin was the entire difference between winning and coming second.
[00:09:21] Marissa: That really puts little differences into perspective.
[00:09:24] Jason: It does. That's energy in action constantly improving, finding that extra degree and letting it compound.
[00:09:30] Marissa: Okay. That idea of the single degree is really motivating.
[00:09:34] Marissa: So we've got interests, attitude, energy, what's next? We need a way to apply all this, right? And that brings us to what World Class Selling calls, the often missing piece for a lot of people, method.
[00:09:45] Jason: Ah, yes. Method, crucial.
[00:09:47] Marissa: The book defines it as the precise step-by-step procedure that covers all the points in the selling process and leaves nothing to chance.
[00:09:55] Marissa: And the author really emphasizes this because, well, without it, all those other great qualities, they're like having a million dollar computer with no software.
[00:10:03] Jason: It just sits there.
[00:10:05] Marissa: Exactly. It won't run. The book mentions things like a Track Selling System or a guaranteed close as examples. It's about having a plan, a detailed game plan so you're not just winging it.
[00:10:18] Jason: And what's really key here, I think, is that Roy's book basically says, without that clear method, all your interest, your great attitude, your energy, it might just be wasted effort.
[00:10:28] Marissa: Mm. Spinning your wheels.
[00:10:29] Jason: Pretty much. Yeah. Method is the structure. It's what lets your talent and your drive actually become effective. Think about, um, Vin Scully, the legendary sportscaster. Huge talent. Tons of experience. the best.
[00:10:41] Jason: But the book points out how incredibly prepared he was. He'd show up days early, meticulously researching teams, players stories. He had a method.
[00:10:49] Marissa: He didn't just rely on talent.
[00:10:51] Jason: No way. It's like that Sir Lawrence Olivier quote. "You have to have the humility to prepare and the self-confidence to bring it off."
[00:10:59] Marissa: I like that. Humility and confidence.
[00:11:01] Jason: Method takes something complex, like selling, or really any big challenge. And turns it from being this big, scary problem into a manageable, predictable procedure.
[00:11:11] Marissa: Okay, I see.
[00:11:13] Jason: So when you combine that deep interest, positive attitude, high energy, and a solid method, that's when you become a true professional, not just someone trying hard.
[00:11:22] Marissa: That link between preparation and confidence is really powerful. Yeah.
[00:11:26] Marissa: Okay. So we've built the base, we've added the supporting layers. So what's at the very top, the peak of the pyramid. It's success itself. The culmination of all of the other layers. Roy defines success not just as money or a title, but as the self-satisfaction in the accomplishment of something that is important to you.
[00:11:48] Jason: Uh, self-satisfaction, that's important.
[00:11:51] Marissa: Very. The book pushes back hard against common ideas about success, that it's just luck or knowing the right people or being in the right place at the right time.
[00:11:59] Jason: The overnight success myth.
[00:12:01] Marissa: Exactly. The author says that's mostly wishful thinking. Real success, according to this framework, it's earned through work. Consistent effort. And crucially, the book points out that success is relative. It looks different for different people. What's important to you? Maybe it is money or a certain job, or maybe it's having more time for family or hobbies or travel.
[00:12:24] Jason: That has to be personal.
[00:12:25] Marissa: Yes. The core idea is it has to be something genuinely important to you.
[00:12:31] Jason: So what does that really mean for achieving it? Roy wraps this up by saying success isn't just the end result. It's that deep personal feeling of satisfaction you get from achieving what truly matters to you.
[00:12:44] Marissa: Okay.
[00:12:45] Jason: And it comes from developing the habit of doing all the things necessary to reach the top, even when they're boring or unpleasant.
[00:12:51] Marissa: Ah, the not so fun stuff.
[00:12:52] Jason: Exactly. It's where the other parts of the pyramid are so vital. Your interest makes you wanna do it. Your attitude keeps you going when it's tough. Your energy gives you the capacity and your method shows you the steps.
[00:13:04] Marissa: They all work together.
[00:13:05] Jason: Totally. And the book even gives tips for those unpleasant tasks.
[00:13:08] Jason: Like, uh, constantly remind yourself of the reward you'll get when it's done. Focus on the game or just schedule it, make it routine. Set aside a specific time each day or week so it becomes less of a drag.
[00:13:20] Marissa: Make it a habit.
[00:13:22] Jason: Right. So when you clearly define what success means for you personally, you can aim for it with real focus. And achieving that gives you that genuine self satisfaction. That's the peak.
[00:13:34] Marissa: It really shifts the focus from external rewards to internal satisfaction earned through effort. That's powerful and this whole pyramid of success. It's not just for say, salespeople, even though some examples might lean that way. This is broader. It's a framework you can use to rate your own performance.
[00:13:51] Jason: Mm-hmm. A self-check tool.
[00:13:53] Marissa: Yeah, and businesses can use it for hiring, for promotions. You can literally use it right now. The book suggests putting reminders on your calendar. Check-in after 60 days, then again in a year. Ask yourself. How am I doing on interest, attitude, energy, method? What have I actively done to improve?
[00:14:10] Jason: It, keeps it alive, not just a one-time read.
[00:14:13] Marissa: Exactly. It's meant for ongoing growth, and the book really stresses that the magic isn't just in the individual levels. It's the synergy, the way they all interact. That's the key to reaching your goal.
[00:14:25] Jason: Which leads to maybe the biggest takeaway. If these principles work together so well for professional success, what about, well, the rest of life.
[00:14:36] Marissa: Right? Are they universal?
[00:14:38] Jason: Roy ends with this really profound thought. It basically says, "Successful selling and successful living are pretty much the same." The same skills that can make you more successful in selling can also make you more successful as a human being. Wow. Think about it. Discipline, positivity, learning, having a plan. These aren't just job skills. They're life skills. They can make pretty much every part of your life better.
[00:14:59] Marissa: That's a fantastic thought to leave people with. Mm-hmm. A blueprint for career success is really a blueprint for a good life. So as you think about this deep dive, about Roy's book and this pyramid, maybe ask yourself this, what's one small change? Maybe just that one degree of difference we talked about. What could you do today to start building your own pyramid of success? That little difference. It might just be everything you need.
[00:15:23] Jason: Yeah, and the beauty is it doesn't have to be overwhelming. You don't need to overhaul your whole career in one shot, just one small step. One intentional choice can start moving you up that pyramid, and if you keep stacking those little wins, before long, you'll look back and see real progress.
[00:15:43] Marissa: Exactly. So whether you're brand new to sales or decades into your career, the pyramid gives you a structure to check in with yourself. Interest, attitude, energy, method, and then success. It's a cycle you can revisit again and again. That's what makes it so powerful.
[00:16:05] Grace: Thanks for joining us for the conclusion of our mini-series on "What Makes a Great Salesperson." We hope you’ve found ideas you can use to sharpen your skills and build your own pyramid of success.
[00:16:16] Grace: But the journey doesn’t stop here. In our next episode, we’re moving into a fascinating chapter called What If…? — where we’ll tackle the unexpected challenges that salespeople face every day. How do you respond when a prospect says they’re too busy, asks about price too early, or wants something you believe isn’t right for them? These are the real-world curveballs of selling, and we’ll unpack how to handle them with confidence and integrity. You won’t want to miss it.
