WCS Podcast 13 - There's Nothing Wrong with Selling
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[00:00:04] Grace: Welcome back to our special series, "What Makes a Great Salesperson", where we explore the insights behind World Class Selling. I’m Grace, and in this episode, we’re flipping the script on one of the most misunderstood professions—sales. Jason and Marissa unpack why selling has such a negative image, how it got that way, and what happens when it’s done right—with integrity, belief, and real professionalism. If you’ve ever felt conflicted about being in sales, this episode is for you.”
[00:00:35] Jason: Picture this, you hear the word salesperson, what immediately springs to mind?
[00:00:41] Marissa: Hmm.
[00:00:41] Jason: Is it that person in the, you know, ill-fitting suit, talking a mile a minute. Clearly more interested in their commission than what you actually need.
[00:00:50] Marissa: Yeah. Maybe like a bit of a high pressure con artist feel.
[00:00:53] Jason: Exactly.
[00:00:54] Jason: Yeah. Someone who feels less like a helper and more like, well, someone to avoid. If you're like most of us, that image isn't exactly flattering, is it?
[00:01:01] Marissa: No. And unfortunately that common image, while maybe a bit of a caricature. It's often well earned by a large part of the sales world. Right! But this deep dive, it isn't really about just reinforcing those stereotypes. We're getting into Roy's book today, which offers this really powerful alternative vision of selling. Okay. Our mission really is to uncover not just what's maybe profoundly wrong with how many people sell, but more importantly, what's fundamentally right and incredibly effective about selling itself, when it's done right with integrity and skill.
[00:01:32] Jason: Okay, let's unpack that then. Roy's book. It immediately shines a light on just how deep this negative image goes. Mm-hmm. He shares this really vivid memory from when he was young, answering those classic get-rich-quick classified ads.
[00:01:46] Marissa: Oh yeah, I remember those. Thousands a week. New Cadillac.
[00:01:50] Jason: Totally. And he said every single time he'd end up meeting the man in the baggy blue suit.
[00:01:56] Marissa: The archetype.
[00:01:57] Jason: Yeah. Muttering something like, "Things are a little rough right now, but once you're on board, everything will be wonderful."
[00:02:03] Marissa: Yeah.
[00:02:03] Jason: It's almost comical, but it just resonates, doesn't it?
[00:02:06] Marissa: It absolutely does. And what's fascinating here is why this negative image sticks around. It's actually deeper than just bad sales tactics. How so? Well, the book points to a really basic human trait. We instinctively want to take all the credit for our smart purchases, right?
[00:02:22] Jason: Sure. I found a great deal.
[00:02:24] Marissa: Exactly. But we're super quick to blame the seller if something goes wrong. Think about buying a car. If it's perfect, you made the smart choice.
[00:02:31] Jason: Right, I did my research.
[00:02:32] Marissa: But if that car turns out to be a lemon, suddenly it's the salesperson's fault. They talked you into it.
[00:02:38] Jason: Ah, okay. I see that.
[00:02:39] Marissa: This material really hammers home that idea. Everyone loves to buy, but no one likes to be sold. So the real question becomes, how does this basic psychology shape every single sales interaction? And how can we navigate that?
[00:02:54] Jason: That's so true. The book even suggests this, uh, simple but kind of stark experiment.
[00:03:00] Marissa: Yeah.
[00:03:01] Jason: Next time you're at a party, just announce loudly, you're a life insurance salesperson. Ah...., and watch the C part.
[00:03:07] Marissa: Pretty much. Just watch how fast you find yourself standing alone. It perfectly shows how deep those perceptions are in society. Wow. Okay. Now here's where it gets really interesting, and there are some eye-opening stats in the book to back this up. Okay. There's this story about a major electronics firm. They were trying to recruit sales engineers on a university campus. Now, this was during a recession. Jobs were scarce. Students were genuinely worried.
[00:03:32] Jason: They'd think they'd have a line out the door.
[00:03:34] Marissa: Exactly. And yet for a job titled salesperson, do you know how many students even showed up for interviews?
[00:03:41] Jason: Uh oh. Yeah. Let me guess. Not many. Zero. Zero.
[00:03:44] Marissa: Absolutely not. That's just kind of jaw dropping, isn't it? It really is. And if you connect that to the bigger picture, the stats are even more, well, stark. Go on. Out of about 12 million people in the US who call themselves sales professionals, a staggering 80% of all sales are made by just 20% of them.
[00:04:03] Jason: The classic 80-20 rule, but wow.
[00:04:05] Marissa: Right. And what's striking isn't just that the gap exists, but how stubborn it is. It says a lot about the general state of sales professionalism. The book notes that four out of five salespeople a customer meets are frankly, mediocre, incompetent, or just ineffective.
[00:04:21] Jason: Four outta five!
[00:04:21] Marissa: Yeah. With only about 10% truly operating at a professional level. It kind of makes you think many are just pretending to be salespeople.
[00:04:29] Jason: Wow. Okay. So despite this pretty grim reality, Roy's material insists this negative image can be changed.
[00:04:37] Marissa: That's the hopeful part.
[00:04:38] Jason: He talks about his own journey, staying with a sales job for 16 years because he genuinely believed in it. And that's the crucial insight he offers.
[00:04:46] Marissa: Belief in what specifically?
[00:04:48] Jason: You have to believe in what you sell, believe in the company, believe in yourself doing the selling, and, this is critical, believe in the prospect you're selling to.
[00:04:58] Marissa: Okay. That shifts the whole dynamic.
[00:04:59] Jason: Totally. It reframes everything as the book puts it. There's nothing wrong with selling. There's just something wrong with the way most people sell.
[00:05:06] Marissa: Precisely. And the emphasis isn't just on making money either,
[00:05:10] Jason: right?
[00:05:11] Marissa: The author really stresses that true selling is about serving the prospect so well, so exceptionally, that the product or service really holds up over time, and a trusting, lasting relationship develops naturally from that.
[00:05:24] Jason: Like a partnership.
[00:05:25] Marissa: Exactly. Ray Agley, a friend quoted in the book, says, true professionals serve needs with integrity. Just like you'd expect from doctors, lawyers, or bankers. This isn't just about being nice either.
[00:05:36] Jason: It's more fundamental.
[00:05:37] Marissa: It's about establishing the only truly sustainable competitive advantage you can have in a lot of markets today. When the seller consistently holds up those professional standards, the prospect naturally becomes more trusting, more open to actual solutions.
[00:05:53] Jason: So if it's not just about the money, what really drives success? And maybe more importantly, satisfaction in this field.
[00:06:01] Marissa: Well, the book gives a powerful answer. Integrity pays.
[00:06:05] Jason: Integrity pays, right?
[00:06:06] Marissa: Yeah. And there's this really compelling, real life example. Russ Shamun, a senior VP at a transportation company called Right-O-Away, okay, he had this tough task, right? He had to go to a long-term customer and tell them they needed a rate increase.
[00:06:21] Jason: Oof. That's the conversation everyone dreads. Usually feels like a fight brewing.
[00:06:25] Marissa: Absolutely. But instead of trying to manipulate or spin things, he just chose complete radical honesty.
[00:06:31] Jason: Really. How did that work?
[00:06:32] Marissa: Well, Russ's approach was pretty remarkable. He just explained the situation to the customer's VP, said, "Look, our costs are going up. We haven't had an increase from you guys in two years."
[00:06:42] Jason: Just laid it out.
[00:06:42] Marissa: Yeah, he was frank, said, "We don't wanna lose your business." But also stressed, "It's extremely important for our two companies to stop negotiating as adversaries and actually work together to reduce each other's costs."
[00:06:54] Jason: Wow. Shifting from adversaries to partners.
[00:06:57] Marissa: Exactly. He even showed them their airline contracts, industry articles, basically proving why the increase was necessary. And here's the fascinating part, the customer's response.
[00:07:09] Jason: What happened?
[00:07:10] Marissa: Before Russ even formally asked for the increase, the customer said, "What can I do to help you with your present condition?"
[00:07:16] Jason: No way. Seriously.
[00:07:17] Marissa: Seriously, the outcome, they got a 10% rate increase, kept the business and expanded it to include more areas.
[00:07:24] Jason: That's incredible.
[00:07:25] Marissa: It really underscores that people aren't just buying a product, they're looking for a trusted partner, a genuine solution. Honesty built that bridge.
[00:07:33] Jason: That example just completely flips the script on what a tough conversation in sales could look like. Yeah. It makes me wonder how much friction in our own lives, even outside sales, comes from just not being that transparent.
[00:07:45] Marissa: It's a powerful lesson. For sure. Yeah. And it brings up an important question the book addresses. Why do so many people seem to dislike selling?
[00:07:53] Jason: Yeah. Beyond the negative image, what's the root cause?
[00:07:56] Marissa: Roy's book suggests it's often because they simply don't do it well. Hmm. Think about hobbies, right? You usually do things for fun because you do them reasonably well. If you were terrible at tennis, you probably wouldn't keep playing it just for enjoyment.
[00:08:08] Jason: Good point. Frustration takes over.
[00:08:10] Marissa: Exactly. Similarly skilled professional salespeople, mm-hmm, they often genuinely have fun and enthusiasm for their work. Why? Because they have confidence, a positive attitude, they have precise methods that work, and they get that deep satisfaction from actually accomplishing important things for their clients and themselves.
[00:08:30] Jason: So it's about mastery leading to enjoyment.
[00:08:32] Marissa: Right? Mastering the discipline, finding the joy, and solving problems, and providing service that naturally builds confidence and enthusiasm.
[00:08:40] Jason: So Roy's book is really pushing for a massive change then. A paradigm shift, as he calls it, a whole new way of looking at the world of selling.
[00:08:48] Marissa: Yeah, it's a big idea.
[00:08:49] Jason: He compares it to the kind of resistance Columbus faced saying the world was round or Copernicus challenging the idea that the sun revolves around the earth. It feels like this material is pushing for a shift that's almost that monumental for the sales world.
[00:09:03] Marissa: It is a fundamental shift. Yet the author argues this World Class Selling approach meets no real resistance among salespeople or prospects anymore.
[00:09:14] Jason: Wait, why not? If it's such a big change?
[00:09:16] Marissa: Because deep down salespeople are realizing the old ways just don't cut it anymore. Buyers today are more educated, more consumer oriented. They see right through the old tricks.
[00:09:25] Jason: Okay, that makes sense.
[00:09:26] Marissa: The book shares some great little stories like a seminar participant who initially just scoffed at what he called "outmoded closes" like the assumptive close.
[00:09:35] Jason: Right? Assuming the sale was made.
[00:09:36] Marissa: Yeah. But later, the same guy admitted his own closing struggles were happening because he was still using that very technique. It feels manipulative now because it takes away the buyer's agency, which is fatal with today's consumers who want collaboration.
[00:09:51] Jason: Ah. So the resistance is more about letting go of old habits.
[00:09:55] Marissa: Precisely. Yeah. Or there's another example. A veteran sales person who was blaming young new buyers for his declining sales. But the reality was he was stuck in old, ineffective ways. The market had changed, but he hadn't. It's kind of a change or die reality for those unwanting to adapt.
[00:10:12] Jason: Exactly. So this philosophy, as Roy's book lays it out, it really serves not just the customer but the salesperson too. It leads to a genuine win-win.
[00:10:21] Marissa: That's the core of it.
[00:10:22] Jason: It's about reframing the whole thing, not a battle, but a partnership. Which means, ultimately, more pride in your work, probably more fun doing it, and naturally better results, higher profits.
[00:10:33] Marissa: Yeah. The ultimate goal the book sets out is for you, the listener, maybe to become one of this new breed of salespeople, someone who can approach every call with your head held high, knowing you are genuinely there to serve.
[00:10:45] Jason: Whether they buy or not isn't the only measure.
[00:10:47] Marissa: Exactly. Whether the prospect buys or not, if you've provided real beneficial service, the book says, you win. You've upheld your professional standard. So, just to kind of wrap up our deep dive today, that negative image of salespeople, often deserved, unfortunately, driven partly by just basic human nature, taking credit, assigning blame. Right! But true professionalism, the kind built on integrity and genuine service, it really does transform the whole act of selling. Remember that stat, 80% of sales are made by only 20% of salespeople. Excellence stands out, and when selling becomes truly professional, it actually becomes fun.
[00:11:27] Jason: Okay, so here's a final, maybe provocative, thought for you to chew on. What image of a salesperson do you actually embody in your own interactions, whether they're strictly professional or even personal ones.
[00:11:37] Marissa: Hmm, good question.
[00:11:38] Jason: How could you maybe apply these principles of integrity and service from Roy's book? Not just to boost your own success, whatever that looks like for you, but maybe also to contribute even in a small way, to a better, more respected image of selling for everyone. What really stands out to you today?
[00:11:57] Grace: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of What Makes a Great Salesperson. As Jason and Marissa shared, there’s truly nothing wrong with selling—only something wrong with how it’s often done. When you believe in what you sell and serve your prospects with integrity, selling becomes not only effective but rewarding. Next time, we’ll continue the journey with an episode titled You’re In the People Business, where we explore why connection—not persuasion—is at the heart of world-class selling. See you then.
[00:12:26] Grace: Good luck and good selling!
